April 28, 2025

MM#405--Who Will Guide the Barque of Peter? The Next Pope, part 1: The Qualities

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At this pivotal moment in Catholic history, the Church prepares for a conclave that differs dramatically from its predecessors. Following Pope Francis's passing, 133 cardinal electors from over 70 countries will gather in Rome to select the 267th successor to St. Peter – a process shrouded in tradition yet facing unprecedented modern challenges.

What makes this conclave unique? Unlike previous papal elections where cardinals shared cultural backgrounds and regular interactions, today's globally diverse College of Cardinals features many electors who barely know each other. Pope Francis deliberately appointed cardinals from historically underrepresented regions like Haiti, Mongolia, and Rwanda, creating what David Kaiser calls "the wild card" of this conclave – unfamiliarity among the very men tasked with this monumental decision.

George Weigel's book "The Next Pope" provides crucial context, positioning this election at a "critical breakpoint" in the Church's fifth epochal transition – the ongoing shift from Counter-Reformation Catholicism to the Church of the New Evangelization. The evidence is clear: where Catholicism boldly proclaims unchanging truths without cultural accommodation, it flourishes spectacularly. Look to sub-Saharan Africa, where despite centuries of Islamic dominance, Catholic communities now thrive with 236 million faithful – representing nearly 19% of global Catholicism.

Key Points from the Episode:

• 133 cardinal electors from over 70 countries will participate in the conclave, likely beginning May 6-7
• Many cardinals do not know each other well due to unprecedented geographic diversity
• Hollywood's portrayal of conclaves (like the recent film) misrepresents Church realities
• The Catholic Church has undergone five major transitions throughout its 2000-year history
• George Weigel identifies key qualities needed in the next pope in his book "The Next Pope"
• Churches teaching the full truth of Revelation without cultural accommodation are thriving globally
• Sub-Saharan Africa represents extraordinary Catholic growth with 236 million Catholics (19% of global Catholic population)
• The next pope must emphasize the universal call to holiness for all baptized Christians
• Both lay Catholics and clergy need better understanding of their baptismal responsibility to evangelize

Let us pray for these cardinal electors, that they may have wisdom in their next election of the successor to the apostle Peter, and as always, let's keep fighting the good fight.

Join us in our next episode as we examine the potential papal candidates who might soon guide the Barque of Peter through these challenging waters of faith.

Other resources:

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00:00 - Special Mojo Minute: Pope Francis's Passing

09:17 - Conclave Timing and Media Misconceptions

16:07 - The Wild Card: Cardinals Who Don't Know Each Other

23:28 - Five Epochal Transitions in Church History

28:45 - The Truth of Revelation vs. Cultural Accommodation

31:15 - Flourishing Catholic Faith in Africa

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Welcome to the Theory to Action podcast, where we examine the timeless treasures of wisdom from the great books in less time, to help you take action immediately and ultimately to create and lead a flourishing life.

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Now here's your host, david Kaiser.

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Hello, I am David and welcome back to another Mojo Minute, and a special Mojo Minute it is.

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We have had the passing of the Holy Father, pope Francis, into eternal life.

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We have prayed for him, we have prayed for the repose of his soul and actually let's pray again for him and for mercy on his soul.

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Let us pray.

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Eternal rest grant unto him, o Lord, and may perpetual light shine upon him for all eternity.

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May he rest in the peace and the mercy of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, amen.

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So thank you for praying along with me for him.

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But in today's Mojo Minute a special Mojo Minute it is we will begin in this episode and follow along, follow on in the next episode to talk about the process, the qualities in the men, the papabilly as they call it, the popable candidates, those who are most likely to become pope.

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And, based on all the current timelines we have right now, the official conclave will begin on May 6th or 7th.

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Rome has been bucking the traditional timelines as these things go for the last week or two and they're tweaking this and that, and so the precise date has not been decided yet.

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It was moving forward, then moving backward.

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Regardless, we will know as we get closer to the official conclave date, but we think right now probably most likely going to land on May 6th or May 7th.

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Now, before we go further, let's just say there are words in the press about, in the major media in the press, about referring to the movie that was just released, I guess two or three months ago, conclave.

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I did not see it.

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Based on the reviews, I wouldn't recommend anyone to see it.

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The reviews were pretty horrific.

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Yet again, it's Hollywood who gets so much wrong about the Catholic Church and they get so much wrong about the whole process of electing a pope that all of that pretty much does a disservice and further makes people more ignorant and miseducates them, which, let's be honest, maybe that is what Hollywood actually wants to do.

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The writers and the directors, maybe that's actually what they want to happen, but I would remind them that our Lord told Peter the apostle that he would create a church and the powers of hell would not prevail against that church.

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And so it stands 2,000, 2000 years later and it still stands and the papacy will be here long after Hollywood is gone.

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It's the oldest living institution in the world.

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Because it is, it is propped up, it is given its energy by our Lord, jesus Christ.

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So, hollywood, I will expect that you will lose on this one too.

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So, but let us, as the gospel or as the biblical word reminds us, let us speak of higher things.

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In today's book, we're going to examine the qualities needed in a new pope, and we're going to look to our resident expert in the church, mr George Weigel, and his 2020 book, the Next Pope, because he offers many qualities.

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He actually offers 10 qualities.

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We're not going to cover all 10.

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And these qualities do not change for the most part over decades and decades.

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They're kind of like virtues they never really go out of style.

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Just one is more needed in a certain time period than others, but they are the ingredients that make a good and holy and worthy and sanctifying man to become Pope.

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And after we examine the qualities on this episode, we will then turn to another book in our next episode and examine the men themselves.

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We have another great book on deck, so we're going to have two unique books one today, one in our next episode for these unique times.

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So it is our hope, over the next two episodes, that we will make you a little bit more informed, a little bit wiser on the qualities in the men who will go into the conclave as a cardinal, and one of them will come out as pope.

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Two quick items that I believe are worthy of our consideration.

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Please know there's an old adage within the church about the front runners, and you can see those front runners purposely put all over major media outlets.

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They're hyping it up as if it's the Kentucky Derby horse race or the National College Football Championship or the Super Bowl.

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But the adage that the church has had and I believe it's appropriate is this those that go into a conclave as a pope will come out as a cardinal, meaning those that are most talked about going into the conclave often not always often, but often enough come out as a cardinal, meaning they don't become pope.

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There's actually a paradox there, because most of the cardinal electors the people that do the voting, the men that do the voting, the men that do the voting and this has been the thinking down through hundreds of years, if not centuries, as the church has been electing 266 popes up until this time over the last 2,000 years.

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If there are men actually politicking to want the job as Pope, that's a bad sign.

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That means they are seeking too much power.

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They have too much pride, too much self-love and often it is those that are most talked about will begin to remind those to not talk about them, because human nature feeds the ego.

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So that is one reminder that I would urge everyone to hold on to.

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Now.

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Certainly, you might recall very recently that Joseph Ratzinger, the previous Pope to Pope Francis, was very much talked about upon the death of John Paul II, and so that is a case that the front runner, pope Benedict, that he would later go on to be called by his regnal name, actually did turn out to be most well-liked among the majority of cardinals, and the cardinals wanted that continuity from John Paul II's governance of the church, so Pope Benedict was elected.

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So that's just one instance where a frontrunner really does come out as the most well-liked in the person who gets the most votes.

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Now the second item in this conclave is really a wild card.

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A wild card, and the wild card is these cardinal electors, these men.

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They frankly do not know each other very well.

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There's a geographical diversity among them.

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Pope Francis significantly diversified the College of Cardinals.

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He appointed cardinals from regions and countries that were historically underrepresented.

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Examples of that were Haiti, laos, rwanda, mongolia.

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Not sure how many Catholics are in Mongolia, but that was Pope Francis's direction, mongolia.

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But, um, that was Pope Francis's direction.

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Uh, that's what he wanted and, as monarch, and uh, as, as, uh, pope, you can, you can do that.

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You have the authority to do that.

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Um, as we go into this conclave, I believe.

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Well, the the first number that came out was there's going to be 135 cardinal electors from over 70 countries, compared to in the 2013 conclave, there was 48 countries represented.

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Two of the Cardinal electors have publicly said.

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I think there were two conservatives actually from the European continent I can't maybe Hungary and I forget where another, where another elector was coming from but both said for health reasons, they will not be attending the conclave.

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The travel would just be too hard on them.

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So two will not be coming for health reasons.

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So that gives us a total number as of right now is 133.

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So the two-thirds vote would be 89 as of right now.

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So certainly that can change.

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Everything is not set in stone until they go into the conclave officially.

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A lot of these men are older, so anything can happen.

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That all said, again, the wild card for this conclave is these cardinal electors do not know each other.

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The geographic component is there and there was just few opportunities for these men to meet in person.

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Unlike earlier eras, when cardinals were predominantly European, often Italian, they were more likely to interact in Rome or at regional gatherings, and today's electors are just spread across the whole world, so it just reduces their shared experiences.

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You know, most times, especially at regional gatherings, the cardinals will often go out, as you know, two or three at a time, or maybe a group of four or five, uh, go to dinner or go have coffee, or I mean, when you're in Rome you see these things happen all the time.

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Um, and so that's where they can pick each other's brains.

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I mean, they are, they are men, they uh, you know they're learned men for the most part and they understand what the flock that they're leading needs, or we hope and pray that they know.

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And so many times they're often picking each other's brains on the direction of the church.

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Now, and normally under most popes at least, it was their tradition for some time that they would have consistories or synods.

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Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI held regular consistories.

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That's where you create a cardinal and you discuss church matters.

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Many of these gatherings allowed the cardinals to meet, share ideas, build alliances.

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John Paul II held nine consistories where he brought cardinals together more frequently.

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The Synod of Bishops convened regularly.

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That also included cardinals.

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That would offer times to foster dialogue, gauge each other's theological and leadership styles.

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General congregations is when the church meets based usually on a certain geographic segment, like part of the United States, would come as a general congregation.

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Or you might have a synod of bishops, like I said, or a synod on the family, where the church would get together to discuss an important topic and that would lead them to have more time in the evenings or the mornings to get to know each other as a voting bloc.

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But that has not happened over the last 12 years of Pope Francis's pontificate.

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So again, it's a wild card.

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There's an unpredictability there.

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So we might.

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This conclave, just frankly, might take longer.

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There might be more factions.

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Normally there's a liberal.

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A frankly might take longer.

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There might be more factions.

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Normally there's a liberal, a conservative, a moderate faction.

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There's usually three factions that break down along theological, ideological or regional lines as the electors begin to put themselves into groups.

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I know it is not ideal to talk about the church among liberal or conservative or moderate, but it's just, frankly, human nature.

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We see this breakdown politically within the United States.

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Now, granted, the United States and that tradition of liberal, conservative, moderate that has come down right, left, center, come down from the French Revolution, and that tradition does not apply across the whole world.

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That's really a Western notion.

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But frankly, we're seeing that pick up around the world as capitalism and democracy has been exported around the world and more and more world governments or not world governments, but countries, world countries are picking up some version of a parliament or a legislature and we see the same thing break down among those, uh, those folks too.

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So it's, it's almost in human nature.

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Uh, people will segment themselves into, uh, people of like mind and then that voting block will will manufacture itself, will manufacture itself, um.

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One observer put this as speed dating to getting to know these other electors.

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I think that's that's, uh, it's not.

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It's probably not appropriate to call it speed dating like I just did.

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So my apologies, but uh, they will have to get to know each other quite quick and um, so, anyhow, that's, that's just the wild card I wanted to throw out there.

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With those administrative items out of the way, let's grab our book of the day and talk about the qualities needed for the next pope.

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Now we're going to give an explanatory note from George Weigel, because as a church historian and commentator he is most excellent we like him here at the Mojo Academy and then we will discuss two qualities of the 10 mentioned in the book.

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So with that let's go to our first pull quote.

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The Catholic Church is the same church over time, for, as St Paul reminds us in Ephesians 4-5, it serves the same Lord, is formed by the same faith and is born from the same baptism.

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The Catholic mode of being the church changes, however, to meet the demands of continuing Christ's saving mission in the world.

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Of continuing Christ's saving mission in the world.

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There have been five such epochal transitions in Christian history.

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One of them is underway now, and the first of these great transitions, what we know as the early church, definitively separated from what became rabbinic Judaism In a process that accelerated after the first Jewish-Roman war in 70 AD.

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That early church gave way to, even as it gave birth to, patriotic Christianity, which emerged in the 4th century and was shaped by the church's encounter with classical culture Toward the end of the first millennium.

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Patriotic Christianity gave way to, even as it gave birth to medieval Christendom, the closest synthesis of church, culture and society ever achieved.

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Medieval Christendom fractured into several reformations of the 16th century, and from that cataclysm came counter-reformation Catholicism, the mode of being the church in which every Catholic born before 1950 grew up, and toward the end of the second millennium, the fifth great transition began to gather force throughout the world church from counter-reformation Catholicism to the church of the new evangelization.

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Catholics live today within the turbulence of this transitional moment.

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In the third decade of the 21st century, the Catholic Church finds itself at a critical breakpoint in that fifth epochal transition, for the three popes that I have personally known and whose patron ministries I have closely followed have all, in one way or another, been men of the Second Vatican Council, the event that fully set in motion the transition from counter-Reformation Catholicism to the Church of the New Evangelization.

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The next pope, though, will not have been shaped by Vatican II in the same way as his three predecessors in the chair of St Peter had.

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I agree with George on this point.

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The Catholic Church does find itself at a critical breakpoint in this fifth epochal transition, not that, even if the College of Cardinal Electors elect the man not suited to the times that the church will break into pieces and be overthrown because we have Christ's promise when he said to Peter you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church in the gate of Hades.

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The gates of Hades that's the Greek for hell will not prevail against it.

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So we have Christ, his reassurance, his promise.

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But that doesn't mean the church can't lead into or be led into schism, like we saw in the great schism in 1054, the splitting of the East and West churches, or the great Western schism when we had multiple papal claimants from 1378 to 1417, that created all kinds of turbulence.

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Can you imagine living in 1378 and having to go through roughly 50 years or 40 years of crazy multiple claimants on the papal throne?

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That would have been horrific.

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Probably most people were barely living 40 years at the time.

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Thank you for modern dentistry.

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Now I don't believe we could have multiple claimants this time around, but in terms of doctrine we could have some dire conversations based on the direction of the cardinal electors take in choosing this next pope.

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So may I ask for your prayers, even if you're not Catholic, we need all people of goodwill to pray for these cardinal electors to select a worthy man to head the Catholic Church.

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After this time of 12 years of confusion and instability, we certainly need everybody's prayers.

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Now on to one of the great qualities that Weigel points out in his book.

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Let's go to the first pull quote there.

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By contrast, the strongest defense of the reality and binding authority of Revelation in recent Catholic debates has come from the younger local churches of Africa and from those parts of the church in the West that are living the new evangelization as the church's grand strategy for the 21st century and the 3rd millennium, where faith in Christ is strong and where that faith is eagerly proclaimed as truly liberating.

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The truths of Revelation appear to be the Magna Carta of human happiness, the pathway to the knowledge of God and to eternal life, and from that proclamation of the truth of God in Christ, true service to society follows.

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The Church of the New Evangelization, which is the Catholic Church of the Truth of Revelation, lives.

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The Catholic Church of Cultural Accommodation, the church, uncertain about the truth of revelation and therefore incapable of proclaiming the gospel fearlessly, is dying or dead.

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The next pope must understand this.

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This first quality should be acutely known to the new pontiff.

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There are areas within the catholic church that are growing extremely fast, and when you look at why that is and where they're locating, the number one attribute is what george weill describes here the cath Catholic Church of the New Evangelization, which is the Catholic Church of the Truth of Revelation, lives, no mistake about it.

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The Catholic Church of Cultural Accommodation, the church that wants to go along, to get along, the church uncertain about the truth of Revelation and therefore is incapable of proclaiming the gospel fearlessly, is dying or dead.

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True, those bishops and priests that are teaching Jesus Christ through and through and are not accommodating to the culture around them and the governments that are anti-Christian and anti-gospel.

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Frankly, those churches are growing wildly.

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The Holy Spirit is flowering them with new converts and new baptism and a host of graces and praise be Jesus Christ for that.

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One example we can look to is the continent of Africa, sub-saharan Africa to be more exact.

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It has been predominantly Muslim ever since the 6th century.

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This region has had or did have fewer 236 million Catholics, which represents about 19% of the global Catholic population.

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That's wildly growing.

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Now just a brief history on the Catholic Church in sub-Saharan Africa.

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Christianity first came to Africa in the first century, spreading to North Africa, egypt and Ethiopia.

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Ethiopia became one of the first Christian states.

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In the fourth century it's influenced by a Syrian missionary, frutimaeus, probably pronouncing that wrong Frumentius, sorry.

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He helped establish the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

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Christianity also spread to Nubia, modern-day Sudan and the 6th century through Egyptian influence.

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Now, north Africa certainly was a center for early Christian leaders like St Augustine, my patron saint, st Athanasius, and we also had three popes of African origin, but they were all North African, what we know now and then as the Berbers.

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However, christianity didn't widely reach sub-Saharan Africa at the time, apart from Ethiopia and Nubia.

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One reason for that was the Saharan desert.

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It's pretty big and long and wide, so if you're traveling by camel it's hard to get across a desert.

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It's a practical problem.

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And then Sub-Saharan Africa.

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Its main religious practices were deeply tied to local traditions like animism and ancestor worship and rituals connected to local spirits.

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There's witchcraft there.

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These beliefs varied between ethnic groups, but they were an important part of communal life and by just before the 6th century Islam had not arrived yet.

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So the region was mostly free from Abrahamic influences, except in places like Ethiopia and Nubia, as we said.

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Now, since the 7th century, islam has taken over the whole region for the most part.

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There are pockets here and there of Christianity, like I said, but from the 7th century onward, islam has dominated the continent, and so what we're looking at right now is sub-Saharan Africa has nearly twice as many Christians 650 million as of 2020, versus Muslims, which was 330 million since the beginning of the 1900s.

00:27:23.041 --> 00:27:29.917
Now the whole continent as a whole pretty much has equal numbers now.

00:27:29.917 --> 00:27:43.067
Each has ebbed and flowed, but all of them are roughly at around 650 million Now.

00:27:43.067 --> 00:27:49.959
There's a religious fault line from Somalia to Senegal, which is seeing new tensions every day.

00:27:49.959 --> 00:27:52.288
There's a Nigerian secretarian violence.

00:27:52.288 --> 00:28:01.941
That's happening, but coexistence, with many Muslims and Christians viewing each other, for the most part, favorably.

00:28:01.941 --> 00:28:17.384
But that's not to say that Christian churches are not being persecuted, because there's many, many people, especially in Nigeria, that are Christians that the Muslims are hunting.

00:28:17.384 --> 00:28:18.288
We don't, for the most part, see that happen.

00:28:18.288 --> 00:28:20.355
The other way around, there are not Christians hunting Muslims.

00:28:21.164 --> 00:28:26.458
So again, back to the next pope.

00:28:26.458 --> 00:28:32.473
The next pope is going to have to look to the growing churches around the world and be able to support them as a flock.

00:28:32.473 --> 00:28:36.394
So that's one quality the next pope is going to have to have.

00:28:36.394 --> 00:28:42.233
And going back to our book for the second quality needed for the next pope, let's go to the book.

00:28:45.105 --> 00:29:05.397
The centrality of the universal call to holiness in Vatican II's teaching on the nature of the Church and the teaching of both the Council and post-conciliar popes on lay responsibility for witness and evangelization has been insufficiently understood by Catholic laity and clergy alike.

00:29:06.185 --> 00:29:10.877
That lack of understanding has resulted in confusions and distortions.

00:29:10.877 --> 00:29:24.977
So the next pope must lift up the universal call to holiness and the universal responsibility to evangelize as rooted in the baptismal character conferred on every Christian.

00:29:24.977 --> 00:29:39.458
And he must, the pope must lead in such a way that these truths are worked through more thoroughly into the texture of Catholic life in all of its expressions.

00:29:39.458 --> 00:29:53.472
And furthermore, weigel rightly gives a quote from Scripture to highlight, and if not reaffirm this again, the call to sanctification of one's life.

00:29:53.472 --> 00:30:00.351
And he pulls this from Matthew 5, 14 through 16, when Christ says you are the light of the world.

00:30:00.351 --> 00:30:11.329
A city set on a hill cannot be hidden, nor do men light a lamp and put it under a bushel, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house.

00:30:11.329 --> 00:30:20.830
Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

00:30:20.830 --> 00:30:24.476
Again, that's Matthew 5, 14 through 16.

00:30:26.137 --> 00:30:48.030
Weigel then goes on to say this the new Pope must remind lay Catholics that they are the new Israel, the beloved people of the new covenant, called to missionary discipleship now and to the wedding feast of the Lamb for eternity, for eternity.

00:30:48.030 --> 00:31:50.345
And so, at today's Mojo Minute, let us pray for those qualities, for our lay faithful to understand their universal call to holiness, and for our cardinal electors to produce and elect a holy man, a man after God's own heart, to lead this church, his church, into the future with zeal and examples of holiness, knowing full well that God's work here on earth must be our own, but in his prayers as the successor to the apostle Peter, because in the end, the church is fighting the anti-church in this great cosmic spiritual battle that has been raging with ebbs and flows since the dawn of time of time.

00:31:50.345 --> 00:31:54.253
So let us pray for these cardinal electors, in whom we pray that they have wisdom in their next election as the successor to the apostle Peter.

00:31:54.253 --> 00:31:57.508
And, as always, let's keep fighting the good fight.

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Thank you for joining us.

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We hope you enjoyed this theory to action podcast.

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Be sure to check out our show page at team mojo academycom, where we have everything we discussed in this podcast, as well as other great resources.

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Until next time, keep getting your mojo on.

MM#405--Who Will Guide the Barque of Peter? The Next Pope, part 1: The Qualities

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